Prometheus Forum
We are the Gods now
Engineer vs Predator
  • SilentGMSilentGM  (2 like this)
    Colonist
    image


    And so, after I saw this picture in google where is going on fight in between engineer from Prometheus and the Predator which we know from the games and movies I've got a question in my brains about it. They look so similar and I think maybe there's an untold story about them, which means aliens is not the only species what's in contact with the Engineers. I guess it would be interesting enough to see the movie where Engineers and Predators are also and see the story what lies behind of them - who's the creator of Predators and what's their purpose in the world of Engineers or there is another species what we still don't know but which are involved in this war in between Predators and Aliens and maybe even with Engineers by themselves. I readed some comments about it and it's no doubt that people want more of this stuff and I'am one of them for sure. Because I think movies about comics like superman and batman or about even Wolverine or Hulk is quite done their role on the world of movies but Aliens, Predators and Engineers is enough fresh thing so I quess there's alot what creators of them can make as suprise for those who are fans for Aliens and Predators. 
  • John_StarkJohn_Stark  
    Blade_Runner_Stark
    Let's see. 
    One can create life, bend evolution to it's will, destroy entire planets, create deadly bioweapons and spread them in a matter of seconds. 

    The other...hunts with spears. And can turn invisible, except if there's water nearby...on earth...where there's 70 per cent water. 

    Hard choice. 
    Nanomachines, Son
  • Let's petition fox to see a new movie, Engineer vs Predator it could be paul ws andersons next movie after resident evil 5000
  • VodiVodi  (3 like this)
    Predator
    Welcome to the forums, SilentGM 

    Based on the AVP movies I think I'd rather see a remake of the God Father with Adam Sandler playing every part

    Enjoy your stay!


    Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.
  • NragemachineNragemachine  (4 like this)
    space_jesus
    All you kids that want these silly crossover movies, trust me when I say it would probably more enjoyable if you bought the action figures and smash them into each other making sound effects with your mouth than to watch a film cheapen two franchises even worse than they've already done.
    Assholes and elbows.
  • SilentGMSilentGM  
    Colonist
    Vodi said:

    Welcome to the forums, SilentGM 

    Based on the AVP movies I think I'd rather see a remake of the God Father with Adam Sandler playing every part

    Enjoy your stay!




    Thanks, I hope that I will enjoy this forum, just cause there's alot themes what's up for discuss.Anyway , Adam Sandler is great actor but seeing him in some kind of AVP movie remake should quite an catastrophical parody of AVP at all. Or maybe not, but I can't take him serious on movies like that if you know what I mean if we take for an example movie "You don't mess with the Zohan" . He is more good for parody or comedy type movies, but not for some thrillers , action or horror movies, except if he would appear on some "Scary Movie" type movie. 
  • SilentGMSilentGM  
    Colonist

    All you kids that want these silly crossover movies, trust me when I say it would probably more enjoyable if you bought the action figures and smash them into each other making sound effects with your mouth than to watch a film cheapen two franchises even worse than they've already done.



    If you ask me, I did't thought that way at all, I wanted to discuss the theory about stuff like that, not just run and get it done for the big screens. I mean , before I watched Prometheus movie I didn't realized that there's something in between aliens and engineers, just because two movies about aliens and predators showed enough about being prey and hunter relationship-sh!t in between aliens and predators. We don't really don't know nothing much about predators-who created them, what's their purpose. 
  • John_StarkJohn_Stark  
    Blade_Runner_Stark
    The problem with AVP is that it doesn't coexist with prometheus.
    I would like to say that it doesn't exist at all, cause i really think it's a distilled version of what an aliens movie should be with some predators thrown in there for fun's sake. 

    Ridley Scott made Alien in 1979
    Predator was made by John MCtiernan in 1987

    At the time, neither of these people wanted anything to do with each other. Nowadays i still believe it's the case.

    And then in the world of comic books (where let's face it, stupid crossovers happen all the time) someone thought it would be fun to pair up aliens and predators.
    They baked up some cheesy plot and there you have it, now predators hunt aliens.
    Why? Well for no reason at all. 
    What is the meaning of this hunt? Heh you figure it out. 

    Had it remained in comic book form, it would have stayed out of the public eyes and never mingled with the far superior movie products.
    But some idiot thought it was a good idea to make a movie out of a concept that was birthed as a what-if scenario in comic book form, so now we have AVP fans everywhere. 

    As i see it, you either follow the AVP storyline or you follow the Alien and Predator one.

    In Alien , xeno's are biological weapons created by a race of engineers that are responsible for creating life all out in the universe. There were never predators. Weyland never met them in the arctic, in fact weyland only appears after a longer set of time. And no one has ever met these things before.

    In Predator, an alien race with tribalistic features hunts our race for sport. Why? Because we are the alpha predator in our planet. It's a ritual, and they only come in the summer. They have no interest in xenomorphs, they hunt us in jungles not in cold environments. In fact it is unknown if they can support the cold since they only come in the summer. 


    Or you can follow AVP, in which a race of space lizards with acid blood were made by who knows and are hunted by a humanoid race of space lizards. Neither of which have anything in common with the characteristics of their franchise. 
    These walking snakes apparently are everywhere in the damn universe and keep getting out despite the big humanoid lizards attempts to contain them.
    Wait a minute, don't they want them to be set free so they can hunt them? 
    Why are they always trying to "contain the situation"? What, do they have remorse for letting xeno's kill us, so they can kill us later? 
    And why do they hunt us? Xeno's are their prize. 
    And why do they spread eggs everywhere like it's easter? Shouldn't they leave them in a set place for the hunt to happen?

    Anyways the continuity in AVP is a mess either way, on a comic book space jockeys are giant elephants and in another they're like robots.
    Weyland is killed in the antarctic but then there's clones of him for some reason everywhere, wearing his face. 
    And if he is that famous, won't everyone on the Sulaco notice that their robot butler is wearing the face of the man who created the company that is funding them? Isn't that something they should bring up? 
    Like, oh hey, nice, ghost weyland is around. Le'ts just call him bishop for some reason. 

    Anyways, there's your options.
    Timeline wise, logic wise and movie wise
    Alien, Predator and AVP aren't linked at all.
    And if they were, the inconsistencies would be meteor sized. 
    YOu can like AVP and actually follow it, but then you're discarding the alien and predator timelines. 

    Nanomachines, Son
  • NragemachineNragemachine  
    space_jesus
    Fact: Prometheus was directed by and its story was heavily consulted with Ridley Scott, who has never Seen AvP. I'm pretty sure its obvious why he would choose not to acknowledge its existence.

    The creator of Alien and Prometheus will never ever have predators in his film, besides the fact that as John has pointed out the AvP universe and the Alien universe are not the same canon and do not coexist in the same universe so any wild theories about predators being involved in the story of Prometheus is both laughable and unfounded.

    If you want to come up with some silly fanfic, well then by all means go nuts. When it comes to films leave it alone because its not gonna happen. REPEAT: Its not gonna happen!!
    Assholes and elbows.
  • ummesterummester  
    AssFlower

    Fox still owns the franchise, not Ridley (as much as Mr Scott might like to think he does in his own head, it's not his). If 10 years down the track Fox wants to do and Engineer, xeno, predator mash up film - they will.

    Just sayin

    Ultimately, when you think about it, its all B movie Sci Fi with A grade budgets and hopefully profitable returns. If some marketting dweeb goes engineers vs predators will make us money - it'll get made.

    Suck fuddlety!
  • John_StarkJohn_Stark  
    Blade_Runner_Stark
    ummester said:

    Fox still owns the franchise, not Ridley (as much as Mr Scott might like to think he does in his own head, it's not his). If 10 years down the track Fox wants to do and Engineer, xeno, predator mash up film - they will.

    Just sayin

    Ultimately, when you think about it, its all B movie Sci Fi with A grade budgets and hopefully profitable returns. If some marketting dweeb goes engineers vs predators will make us money - it'll get made.



    Yeah but it's not even about Scott now. 
    The story itself isn't connectable. It's incompatible, things don't match up unless we see AVP as a what if scenario.

    And that's my point, fox can make all the avp it wants and put the engineers in there, it will still basically be a what if scenario.

    Predators only hunt in the summer...
    Aliens have never been on earth...
    Bishop isn't Mr Weyland, Peter Weyland is...
    Best case scenario Michael Bishop is peter's descendent but he still wouldn't have founded weyland industries. 

    It's not compatible, that's my point...
    Storywise and logic wise.
    If people complain about plot holes, these would have massive gaps to fill. 

    Why don't people take the alien franchise as the alien franchise
    the predator franchise as the predator franchise
    and the avp franchise as the avp franchise?
    They're 3 separate entities that don't mingle. 
    Nanomachines, Son
  • ummesterummester  
    AssFlower

    The second and 3rd Transformers film had absolutely no story logic at all John, but they still got made, with bigger budgets than Prometheus - and the masses paid to see them.

    I don't deny what you are saying but I doubt the Fox board members give a fuck.

    Suck fuddlety!
  • NragemachineNragemachine  
    space_jesus
    Yeah you can't consider AvP canon with Alien when they flat-out contradict the events in the Alien universe right from the get-go. And maybe Fox will merge the franchises some day and make them even more convoluted and nonsensical than ever before, but for now thats not the case. As it stands today what we say is true.
    Assholes and elbows.
  • ummesterummester  
    AssFlower

    Nrage, what you say is true, from a certain point ov view:)

     

    Suck fuddlety!
  • From what i know brandywine own the rights to the alien characters and have to be on board for any movies involving the characters from the alien series including the xenomorph to be greenlit. Gordon caroll, walter hill and david giler were producers on alien vs predator without them the film wouldn't have gotten made and it was a brandywine co-production with fox. Now prometheus is a co-production between brandywine and scott free, ridley had to go through brandywine in the first place to use the character of the space jockey, but with the character being explored and unveiled in its current form in prometheus and with ridley being a producer on the film and with scott free being a co-producer i think you would have to obtain permission from both brandywine and scott free if you wanted to make any movies now with these newly named "engineers".


    James cameron had the same problem with the terminator, he didn't own the rights to the story because he sold the screenplay to orion or some company, that is why it took him so long to get the sequel made. It's also the reason why they could make terminator 3 without his permission as well as terminator salvation. But he actually owns the rights to avatar and the characters he created in that movie. I think both james cameron and ridley scott have learned lessons from the past and can exercise more control now, it's also the reason why george lucas is such a smart guy he was doing this stuff from the get go.

  • ummesterummester  
    AssFlower

    So if Scott Free own the engineer TM and Brandywine owns the Space Jockey - we could see alternate versions of the SJ if Brandywine agrees but Scott doesn't?

    Suck fuddlety!
  • pro_metheus_fanpro_metheus_fan  (1 like this)
    Colonist

     


    ummester said:


    So if Scott Free own the engineer TM and Brandywine owns the Space Jockey - we could see alternate versions of the SJ if Brandywine agrees but Scott doesn't?


    Yeah that is a possibility, i mean you could have the chair and the space jockey suit, basically anything that was shown in alien one can be effectively remade by brandywine, so the juggernaut would belong to them and the chair etc. But the big albino engineers and the idea of the space jockey shell being a suit would be a brandywine co-owned idea with scott free.


    So brandywine could effectively remake or re-do an alien prequel, as long as nothing in it looks like anything from prometheus except the chair the suit and the juggernaut. But ridley i think still has to have brandywine on board for prometheus 2, unless he just starts afresh and does not include anything that was originally seen in alien.


    Personally i think this is the route he will go, on the commentary he said he used a saucer at the beginning of the movie because it was about 3 million years ago. Then he used the juggernaut to show the evolution in there technology and that was around 2000 years ago, so i'm assuming the engineers tech has evolved since then aswell. All in all though anything presented in ridleys movies would be more or less under his control as his company are a co-producer. He only really needed brandywine on board to use the character of the space jockey in the first place, although shaw is travelling on the juggernaut, but the sequel maybe the last time we see it.


    But it is a fairly bare bones idea in it's appearance in alien, nobody knew who he was or what he was doing, the story of the engineers seeding life and creating the xenomorph would belong to ridley and brandywine and they cannot make anything that resembles his story without his permission. It was ridley who dreamed up this idea of who they were and the whole suit thing and now he's patented it if you like, in fact i was surprised there was this big mystery behind the space jockey, i just thought it was a creature that was in alien for all of 3 minutes, i never thought they could make a movie out of that character, but i guess when you have an imagination like ridley scott you can do these things and thats why he's making movies and i'm not..


    Another interesting point is that ridley had all of this more or less planned after he made alien. Much of the story of alien vs predator is ripped off of original production art that was created but not used for alien, like the idea of a pyramid and all of the lovecraftian stuff. Giger is really into lovecraft hence why his artbook is called necronimcon and prometheus shows more of a lovecraftian world, it's a bit like at the mountains of madness. I think ridley has had these ideas or an idea of what he wanted to do with another alien movie for years, but then cameron showed up and changed the playing field, but make no mistake ridley is doing a lucas here, i think he is trying to get his company off the ground and there is money to be made in merchandising and owning the rights to things, in fact from what i know i think he owns sherpperton studios and most of the film was made there, he is quite a clever buisness man.

  • ummesterummester  
    AssFlower

    Nice response, cheers pro

    I agree with your assumption, that Ridley is trying to create his own franchise et al. And, though I think Prometheus is a well made film, I think it has missed that mark.

    There is a purity of vision and storytelling to those things that become franchise hits. Alien/Aliens, Jaws, Star Wars, Harry Potter, Raiders of the lost Ark, Game of Thrones, Zelda games, Mario games - they all have this purity. Cameron's Avatar has it, though it may be too much of a mish mash and rip off of other ideas to make it's own mark.

    Prometheus is muddy. Shit, the idea for a franchise is muddy before the script/production etc. Set in an established universe, bent to make a new one. It's like trying to make a franchise out of fan fiction.

    Beyond that, the ideas and characters are complicated. And not GoTs complicated as in there are always extra threads to explore, but motivationally and ideologically complicated. The protagonist is a scientist looking for proof of God that moves her own goalposts as the plot requires - quite human and perfectably acceptable as a believeable person but not so much as a relatable iconic character to carry a franchise.

    I don't know what it is - perhaps Ridley just doesn't have it in him. He is a visually fantastic director, though he is not a story teller. Lindy, style aside, is a proven storyteller. Lost became a stand alone franchice and only fell over at the end when it's lack of purity and purpose was exposed.

    Suck fuddlety!
  • I agree it was a bit ropey, to me it was like lost in space the 50's tv show or one of those old sci-fi films like the time machine or even doctor who and the daleks with peter cushing. There was something kind of campy about it but i think i got that from the ruins and the space suits and the engineer head scene. All in all i think it was a bit of a sci-fi romp and i think ridley was just tipping his hat to every sci-fi film or story ever written.


    I thought prometheus was fun in parts but it has stayed with me because it is so unique. By unique i don't neccesarily mean the story which i felt was rather eccentric but by how the movie was presented. There were certain scenes that were pure cinematic gold like david and the star map the head sculpture room, the storm. The enviroment was also incredible but the film was so disjointed. I still cannot get on board with the whole charlie being set on fire bit or shaw cutting the octopus out of herself, it all feels really dream like and surreal. All in all i don't really know what to think about it. I like it but i know it is far from perfect.


     It has ideas in there that i don't think hollywood would normally touch and there are set pieces that are astonishing along with some bad acting and some really bizzare moments. I think mark kermode the film reviewer summed it up best when he said it was like buzz lightyear it doesn't exactly fly but it falls with style. All in all i don't think i have ever seen anything like it before and i don't know if it's because of the lunacy of certain scene's or it's themes.


    All in all though it has made people talk whether or not that was it's intended effect. I haven't watched the film in a while and i have only watched it 4 or 5 times in total although i've skipped through it a couple of times just to watch certain scene's. But i think the best thing to come out of it for me is talking to you guys on the forum. I wish that these trolls would understand that no matter how well a film does or how good it is just the fact that it exists means it gives certain people who would never normally speak to each other something in common and a reason to start talking and in my opinion that can only be a good thing.


    There are things in the movie that are left vague or unanswered and that has had a backlash and has turned certain people off of the movie but for me the fun is in trying to fill in those blanks yourself using your imagination and with everybody bringing there ideas to the table it makes the film that much cooller. The only thing i can really say about jaws or raiders is that they are good movies and fans do come together and show there apreciation but prometheus for me is a bit like a puzzle game, on this forum alone there are some amazing theories and interesting stories so maybe this is a new kind of franchise that is chaging the playing field. All in all though i think it is an interesting film and talking to lots of different people about there opinions on it and what does it mean has been cool. So i thank ridley scott for that, he could have made a braindead load of fluff but instead he has kind of created a moment in pop culture, a moment when everybody was anticipating it and then the after effects of the film, it's just a shame it wasn't the masterpiece everybody expected.


    So it may not be perfect franchise wise but i am more invested in this possible film franchise then i have been any other and i think that is all down to it being different and asking or presenting mysteries and strange questions be it in a slightly crap or mishandled way, ironically i don't think guy ritchies sherlock holmes movies have a forum dicussing the mysteries of those movies but i could be wrong and from what i know there will be a third one of those.

  • TerraformerTerraformer  (5 like this)
    Biggus_Diccus
    image
    Any views, opinions or comments by Terraformer are not those of Prometheusforum.net and purely for entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously and not to be read by anyone.
  • SilentGMSilentGM  
    Colonist
    Well I probably just will agree that there's nothing for what to made a movie with engineers and predators. Unless, someone here said that AVP never happened so by his words, by meaning that aliens is from another universe and predators from other. But, I remember quite right the end episodes of Predator 2 movie, where that detective follows Predator into it's ship and before the final battle it goes near the wall of predator's trophies where You can see a skull similar to alien xenomorph skull. 
    Like in this video at the end


    I just wanted to say that if it is so, then predators were hunters on xenomorphs before AVP come out. 
  • John_StarkJohn_Stark  (1 like this)
    Blade_Runner_Stark
    The scene at the end of predator 2 is an easter egg. A nod. A tip of the hat.

    For everyone that uses that scene as an argument, allow me to point out that in star trek (2009) R2 D2 appears in the wreckage of a ship.

    If that was to indicate that the crossover was literal, you would understand the consequences. 

    And in Blade Runner one of the vehicles has the same display as the nostromo. 
    just another case of a nod. 
    Nanomachines, Son
  • John_StarkJohn_Stark  
    Blade_Runner_Stark
    Oh and in predators apparently you can see a xeno head.

    I wonder why there's nowhere to be seen an easter egg for the predator in the Alien movies.
    While the predator movies have desperately tried clinging on to the Alien.

    I mean easter eggs.
    The title format copy: 
    Alien-s
    Predator-s

    I think they really need that alien nearby in case it goes for broke. 

    Nanomachines, Son
  • SilentGMSilentGM  
    Colonist

    Oh and in predators apparently you can see a xeno head.


    I wonder why there's nowhere to be seen an easter egg for the predator in the Alien movies.
    While the predator movies have desperately tried clinging on to the Alien.

    I mean easter eggs.
    The title format copy: 
    Alien-s
    Predator-s

    I think they really need that alien nearby in case it goes for broke. 



    Maybe they see things little bit different , that's why they put a similar heads of xeno's into the predator movies. Maybe that's the way how they want to make Alien movies more popular. :D
  • TerraformerTerraformer  (2 like this)
    Biggus_Diccus
    you know silentGM I always said that it would be awesome if both franchises gave little nods of acknowledgement to one another with hints that they are connected but I think the very badly made AVP films just blew that idea sky high. Now AVP could have been epic if done epic with an epic cast and crew but unfortunately 20th century fox thought it would be best to give the job to a hack who made mortal combat lol
    Any views, opinions or comments by Terraformer are not those of Prometheusforum.net and purely for entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously and not to be read by anyone.
  • SilentGMSilentGM  
    Colonist

    you know silentGM I always said that it would be awesome if both franchises gave little nods of acknowledgement to one another with hints that they are connected but I think the very badly made AVP films just blew that idea sky high. Now AVP could have been epic if done epic with an epic cast and crew but unfortunately 20th century fox thought it would be best to give the job to a hack who made mortal combat lol



    Like they say - nothing is perfect and I say it will never be just cause it's not the way how things are going on in this world. 

Welcome!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Login with Facebook Sign In with Google Sign In with OpenID

Forum Tips

• Bookmark All Discussions to catch all of the action.
• Introduce yourself here.
• Click your username for more options.
Dismiss to unsticky discussions.
Imgur for hosting images.
• Email: prometheusforum@gmail.com
• More forum tips.